Can Atheists And Agnostic Worship?

Re: Can Atheists And Agnostic Worship?

Postby Ayn Marx » Wed Feb 04, 2015 2:15 am

Thoughtage wrote:The word "worship" seems to imply an emotional relationship with something larger than oneself. So I'm confused as to the degree Rands temple applies, given her focus on man.
Simple, any universally understood abstraction is larger than oneself.
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Re: Can Atheists And Agnostic Worship?

Postby AB517 » Fri Feb 06, 2015 5:37 am

romansh wrote:
gilnv wrote:1. An athletic person does athletic stuff like jogging or racquet sports.

1. Doing things that he considers spiritual, like meditation, prayer, connecting with Earth or spirits etc.

It's funny playing squash is the closest thing I do to something that is meditation.
In the thirty seconds or so a rally takes these days there is nothing in this universe other than a black bouncing ball in a white court.

I have long recognized this altered state when I am lost in a rally. A tin or double bounce brings me back to the conscious world.





http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LDRoiQ2RA6Q

It doesn't get more real for me.

I mean hours of unity.
All the noise was gone.
Being type A it is very hard to come by these days.
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Re: Can Atheists And Agnostic Worship?

Postby AB517 » Fri Feb 06, 2015 5:58 am

Thoughtage wrote:
Ayn Marx wrote:Stretching the definition of worship maybe but Ayn Rand's novel "The Fountainhead" contains an interesting passage describing a 'Temple of the Human Spirit"


To the degree the "Temple" is about emotion, and not just more intellectualism, then it's relevant. Ayn Rand said...

Howard Roark built a temple to the human spirit. He saw man as strong, proud, clean, wise and fearless. He saw man as a heroic being. And he built a temple to that. A temple is a place where man is to experience exaltation. He thought that exaltation comes from the consciousness of being guiltless, of seeing the truth and achieving it, of living up to one’s highest possibility, of knowing no shame and having no cause for shame, of being able to stand naked in full sunlight. He thought that exaltation means joy and that joy is man’s birthright. He tho...ught that a place built as a setting for man is a sacred place. That is what Howard Roark thought of man and of exaltation.


The word "worship" seems to imply an emotional relationship with something larger than oneself. So I'm confused as to the degree Rands temple applies, given her focus on man.

My point is that "an emotional relationship with something larger than oneself" may have great value, and need not be aimed at religious entities.

To me, this is an example of being objective about religion, and able to harvest that which is useful, while declining that which we find to be an obstacle.


"objective"? lmao ... :floor: ... ya right ... that implies proper weighting and understanding. You keep that to yourself.

your use of religion is the sameas my use of the word religion. "a emotional connection" to your surroundings". "to love" means you have to have something for it to be "placed". Even "love" to "hate religion". There are many people that place 'love" on "imaginary beast". some beast are good and some not so good.

I agree with some that "religion" is used as a weapon many times. And that it is dangerous in the wrong hands. I think it needs controlling like any other group of people. Yes, that is true. But to outlaw, or ban it is very short sighted. I actually think "simple minded" or "broken brained". But, none the less, it is true, religion is as dangerous as fire, cars , x-rays and drugs.

We have to remember that we are deal with an animal that has to be told that we can't text and drive. I mean if that doesn't explain what we are dealing with nothing does. We all do not think the same so we all can't have own set of rules. To think that is just stupid. I mean even Ice-cream shops don't have an infinite number of choices.
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Re: Can Atheists And Agnostic Worship?

Postby whateverist » Thu Feb 26, 2015 11:35 pm

Very, very late to this party but I like the theme. I feel something like that toward the totality of myself. Having experienced a bout of severe depression in my early twenties I know what it is like to lack something important. Even looking at a sunset I would feel as though I were standing outside the experience, separated from it. Rapport with people was impossible. I felt indifferent to artistic pursuits. Athletic pursuits left me feeling clunky and out of sync. So I know there is a great deal about our every day experience which is a gift from .. below? If all I had was rationality, it would not be enough. I feel grateful for the many gifts which make my experience of the world possible.

I'm not sure I would describe what I feel as worshipful, but in a way it is. It certainly includes a recognition of something beyond the narrow, conscious I which is beyond my power to generate. But I don't feel the need to prostrate myself to whatever it is. I see it more as a partnership. But the gratitude is genuine.
You can call me Mark or whatever.

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Re: Can Atheists And Agnostic Worship?

Postby AB517 » Fri Feb 27, 2015 11:04 am

shame you dislike me so. I am a cpatalist. That is exactly how I feel. Well, with some personal tweaking that we all are allowed to have due do training differences. Well, unless in a room of formal literalist people that is.

I just got finished a few days with a hardcore literal militant atheist. wow, talk about a monkey doing monkey things. No science training but boy can they run their mouth about what sciences says alright. "no clean slate" is basically what they admitted. And it has nothing to do with "that god" for me.

There is nothing wrong with expressing "gratitude" if that is an emotion you have in excess. "releasing it helps us not "glitch and lock". I must admit, I think we might be better off if some people's brains "locked up". The internet is like a brain in a way. It will reinforce any thought a person has. real or imagined.
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Re: Can Atheists And Agnostic Worship?

Postby gilnv » Sat Feb 28, 2015 6:10 pm

hallelujah,
I'''m born-again as an spiritual agnostic.

Personally, I see spiritual everywhere. For Pete's sakes, we are all some type of spirit when it comes to defining our consciousness. Isn't our consciousness incredibly close to our definition of a spirit.?

We are all undebateably some kind of sentience for the Universe.
We are all in symbiosis with plants by surviving on the oxygen they give us and in return we give them carbon dioxide. And yet, most of us never thank them. Geez.
If we aren't spiritual, I think the begged question is "Why the heck not??"

I thank the sun repeatedly. It gives us tons of stuff and most of it is beyond our explanations. Aren't we sundust? Yeah, I think we are. Thank you Carl Sagan. Suns give birth to us, adopt us, and then provide us with much more than just light bulbs of the Universe for us.
We shouldn't need to be raised as native american indians to notice our connection and dependence on Earth, air, water, trees, Sun, and space. At least, we should be able to see something spiritual in the sentience of animals.
the divine isn't a living entity, it is the living force within all of us.
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Re: Can Atheists And Agnostic Worship?

Postby alka » Sun Mar 01, 2015 2:16 am

I guess you could worship the the flying spaghetti monster :pray:
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Re: Can Atheists And Agnostic Worship?

Postby whateverist » Sun Mar 01, 2015 11:08 am

AB517 wrote:shame you dislike me so.


Where'd you get that idea? I may enjoy more dark humor than you do but I agree we have a lot in common.

AB517 wrote:I am a cpatalist.


Compatibilist? (Not sure how it is spelled either.)

AB517 wrote:I just got finished a few days with a hardcore literal militant atheist. wow, talk about a monkey doing monkey things. No science training but boy can they run their mouth about what sciences says alright. "no clean slate" is basically what they admitted. And it has nothing to do with "that god" for me.


Here is where we part company. You have axes to grind about this. You seem to think some atheists are 'lower life forms' who do evil and are worthy of contempt. I think everyone is basically trying to do their best as they recognize it. They have a different upbringing and life experiences. When some people are perpetually mad about something, as so many young/new atheists are, there is usually a back story for why that is.

I don't have to enjoy the bile to appreciate where it comes from. When one comes to think that the people who raised them up in the world have foisted a set of beliefs on them which they recognize as untrue, some sense of betrayal is understandable. Anger is the way that usually comes out. Everyone gets through their own challenges in their own way and in their own time. No one is simply an unmitigated rat bastard.

AB517 wrote:There is nothing wrong with expressing "gratitude" if that is an emotion you have in excess. "releasing it helps us not "glitch and lock".


Feeling you again ..

AB517 wrote:I must admit, I think we might be better off if some people's brains "locked up".


.. and losing me again.
You can call me Mark or whatever.

“Tiger got to hunt, bird got to fly;
Man got to sit and wonder 'why, why, why?'
Tiger got to sleep, bird got to land;
Man got to tell himself he understand.”
― Kurt Vonnegut, Cat's Cradle
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Re: Can Atheists And Agnostic Worship?

Postby romansh » Sun Mar 01, 2015 11:35 am

whateverist wrote: I think everyone is basically trying to do their best as they recognize it. They have a different upbringing and life experiences. When some people are perpetually mad about something, as so many young/new atheists are, there is usually a back story for why that is.

I don't have to enjoy the bile to appreciate where it comes from. When one comes to think that the people who raised them up in the world have foisted a set of beliefs on them which they recognize as untrue, some sense of betrayal is understandable. Anger is the way that usually comes out. Everyone gets through their own challenges in their own way and in their own time. No one is simply an unmitigated rat bastard.

:yes:
:cheers:
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Re: Can Atheists And Agnostic Worship?

Postby romansh » Sun Mar 01, 2015 11:53 am

alka wrote:I guess you could worship the the flying spaghetti monster :pray:


Hi alka
:)
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