The new, New Atheism

Re: The new, New Atheism

Postby gilnv » Mon Mar 02, 2015 4:00 pm

AB517 wrote:Reincarnation.
understanding part: How many different ways can atoms be configured in humans? We can Narrow that number to "how many do we see"? People with the same meme mixture will appear to be the "same person from before".

I am dropping the "physical" for now, but the same applies. We are "meme" mixtures and there is a finite mixture set. Some are repeated.

Now for the "reason part".
Is it more rational to say that a "personality type" was repeated or that a Peron was "reincarnated"? :?
"


It is (as you said) more rational to say a personality type can repeat. But I suspect a bigger oddity is happening. Something along the lines of a life force that gets us plugged into it as though we are the mere inanimate parts, with only a slight bit of our personality or karma carrying on.
Instead of a similar personality incarnating with the virtually neverending physical atoms of science, I wonder if a undetectable life force type of energy is happening.

For example, when we add a light to our house, 'we aren't creating light out of nothing, we are just tapping into the electrical circuit'. And in our case, the electrical circuit could be an unproveable life force that reincarnates some aspect of sentient life just as though a light bulb was added to a circuit.
So I'm suggesting that when a person dies, his spirit or soul type of energies, clicks into the electrical circuit of life again in some way. Most of our memories would probably short circuit, but a light or sentience starts to shine again. ..

So the electrical circuit that I'm suspecting could be a non proveable life force, and that is what I often suspect. I'm not betting on it but I'm not throwing the notion away. Afterall, life does seem to grow and find ways to do it. And these ways do defy statistical odds.

So even though I suspect similar possibilities as you do, I tend to jump with more than the 'what we know for sure approach' that you use. You use the 'what we know for sure approach' and decide from there. I tend to use the 'what we know for sure approach' and add to it 'what wild unprovable tenet might explain our unexplainable situation'. :)
the divine isn't a living entity, it is the living force within all of us.
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Re: The new, New Atheism

Postby AB517 » Mon Mar 02, 2015 4:44 pm

Well I agree with ya guy. I think this "life force" is probably a group of fields instead a thing unto itself. For me stating a "living verse" takes care of that. and it fits observations. :)
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Re: The new, New Atheism

Postby AB517 » Mon Mar 02, 2015 5:06 pm

Inquisitor wrote:Being an Atheist, I have gone through phases of growth. From being a Christopher Hitchins groupie, to leaning towards a respect for humanism. I also think that bashing religion is a waste of time. Religion will, I think, always be with us in one form or another. It is what religion drives people to do is what bothers me. If Christianity were much less evangelical, it could be tolerated better. If anyone should choose to "believe" in any religious ideology, whether revealed or otherwise, they should have that right. But only if they keep in mind that human well being is a universal venture and belonging to a specialized group with competing values only hinders that venture.



This it it realy. "I would change the word to "chriastians" tho.
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Re: The new, New Atheism

Postby romansh » Tue Mar 03, 2015 7:41 pm

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Re: The new, New Atheism

Postby whateverist » Wed Mar 04, 2015 3:22 am

I might re-write the "new atheists" dialog balloon to say "H*** no. F*** you." The next panel, the "new, New Atheists" would show someone much more respectful. Maybe the xtian's balloon would say "We're smart too". And the new, New Atheist would say "Of course you are, brother".
You can call me Mark or whatever.

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Man got to sit and wonder 'why, why, why?'
Tiger got to sleep, bird got to land;
Man got to tell himself he understand.”
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Re: The new, New Atheism

Postby romansh » Wed Mar 04, 2015 8:02 am

whateverist wrote:I might re-write the "new atheists" dialog balloon to say "H*** no. F*** you." The next panel, the "new, New Atheists" would show someone much more respectful. Maybe the xtian's balloon would say "We're smart too". And the new, New Atheist would say "Of course you are, brother".


I know what you mean ... but I would argue the "iconic" New Atheists are relatively polite.
But I would agree some of the regular rank and file New Atheists can be rude.

Maybe we should have a New Christian panel as well.
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Re: The new, New Atheism

Postby KKS » Wed Mar 04, 2015 6:24 pm

What I believe is overlooked is that atheism/anti-thesim is a religion. It adheres to a concept that cannot be proven,so like the semitic religions, it requires a faith. When that concept is challenged or only expressed as non-belief,because of their insecurity,the believer becomes aggressive. The reality for me, is that I don't know and I know that I don't know. It is hard for me to think there may be no all powerful because I am so puny, but I realize that is a base animal response to the universe. I have no problem with whatever helps someone else uses to cope with life, as long as thay are tolerant of everybody's right to do the same.
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Re: The new, New Atheism

Postby Bill » Wed Mar 04, 2015 6:35 pm

Hi KKS and welcome to the forum.

The agnostics around here tend to have a core belief that everyone is entitled to believe anything they wish, provided that such a belief does not harm or threaten to harm other human beings.

Some of us go so far as to posit that any person's belief system is the sum of their life experiences to date, and to say that they have the wrong belief is tantamount to saying that they have lived the wrong life.
The only reality is the moment that we call "Now".
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Re: The new, New Atheism

Postby romansh » Wed Mar 04, 2015 7:58 pm

Welcome KKS
Hope you have fun here.

But I can't say I agree with you.
KKS wrote: What I believe is overlooked is that atheism/anti-thesim is a religion. It adheres to a concept that cannot be proven,so like the semitic religions, it requires a faith.

I would argue by most definitions atheism is not a religion.
Most [educated] atheists would not argue that something can be proven. It might be supported by corroborating evidence. But to be fair there is a lot of evidence that does not support an Abrahamic god, or at least certain interpretations of that god. So I would argue it takes faith to hold that certain belief despite the evidence to the contrary.

KKS wrote: When that concept is challenged or only expressed as non-belief,because of their insecurity,the believer becomes aggressive.

This is fair enough, though not all believers become aggressive and nor are all anti-theists or even strong atheists.
Our perception of these things is skewed by the type of person that feels they need to get their point of view across.
KKS wrote:The reality for me, is that I don't know and I know that I don't know. It is hard for me to think there may be no all powerful because I am so puny, but I realize that is a base animal response to the universe. I have no problem with whatever helps someone else uses to cope with life, as long as thay are tolerant of everybody's right to do the same.

I think the base or perhaps societal response is that there must be something all powerful.

I too have no problem with people believing all sorts of things, but when their beliefs impinge on politics, science and other secular matters then I can understand why people might disagree.
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Re: The new, New Atheism

Postby romansh » Wed Mar 04, 2015 8:03 pm

Bill wrote:Some of us go so far as to posit that any person's belief system is the sum of their life experiences to date, and to say that they have the wrong belief is tantamount to saying that they have lived the wrong life.

Well you almost got it right ... at least my interpretation.

I suspect people have incorrect beliefs ... but that their experiences are somehow wrong is not what I have being trying to say. I have been arguing against this dualistic interpretation of right and wrong (in the sense of good and bad) for over seven years.
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