Evolution, Politics and Religion

Discussions related to politics and social issues
(the impact of religion on society)

Re: Evolution, Politics and Religion

Postby AB517 » Tue Mar 03, 2015 4:59 am

this is different. Most people pick a candidate for simple reasons. I am guilty of that. I mean I voted for bush because I thought he was lip serving the pea brain liberal then he was going to take iraq's oil and pay off our debt. How stupid was I. Seems like a I could used a brain as big as a pea.

Yes, you are most correct, we (ME) need to be better voters. :idea:
User avatar
AB517
Distinguished Prognosticator
Distinguished Prognosticator
 
Posts: 2943
Joined: Mon Dec 06, 2010 6:35 am

Re: Evolution, Politics and Religion

Postby Bill » Tue Mar 03, 2015 6:32 am

I agree that better informed voters tend to lead to a more capable body of public servants.

We are hung up on this thread of what constitutes better information. If all we want is something to hang our irrational bigotry on, the questions proposed are more worrisome than the data that might be elicited.
The only reality is the moment that we call "Now".
= = = =
We evolved to seek dinner, not to seek the truth - Mark Whatever
User avatar
Bill
Site Admin
Site Admin
 
Posts: 5027
Images: 1
Joined: Fri Dec 03, 2010 1:23 pm
Location: South Orange, CA
Blog: View Blog (8)
Affiliation: Agnostic
Country: United States

Re: Evolution, Politics and Religion

Postby AB517 » Tue Mar 03, 2015 11:31 am

totaly agree with ya here. for some it starts in the mirror ... my mirror. :|
User avatar
AB517
Distinguished Prognosticator
Distinguished Prognosticator
 
Posts: 2943
Joined: Mon Dec 06, 2010 6:35 am

Re: Evolution, Politics and Religion

Postby romansh » Wed Mar 04, 2015 8:49 pm

Bill wrote:
romansh wrote:I suspect people have incorrect beliefs ... but that their experiences are somehow wrong is not what I have being trying to say. I have been arguing against this dualistic interpretation of right and wrong (in the sense of good and bad) for over seven years.


You confuse me. If you hold that you are against a dualistic interpretation of right and wrong when looking at people's beliefs, then how do you come up with the irrational proposal you made as the OP on another thread:


Quite simple really ... I said it was a valid question not a right question (in the sense of a good or bad question).

The answer provides me information which helps form an opinion of the prospective candidate.
It allows me to assess the following

    1) How truthful is the candidate by answering yes or no truthfully. I like truthful candidates don't you?

    2) It allows me to assess how the candidate assesses evidence versus simply towing the Biblical party line if he answers "no". I like candidates who are openly evidence based.

    3) If the candidate avoids the question, it points to the fact that candidate would prefer to not loose the election rather than answer honestly. If you think this is the type of politician you want elected ... by all means ignore his answers to this question

Perhaps there are candidates that can bypass their religiosity when in office. But when that candidate is forced to choose between Christ and our "rights" then I hope you have chosen wisely.
"That's right!" shouted Vroomfondel, "we demand rigidly defined areas of doubt and uncertainty!"
Douglas Adams
User avatar
romansh
Site Admin
Site Admin
 
Posts: 4673
Images: 23
Joined: Fri Dec 03, 2010 6:46 pm
Location: BC/US border - in the woods
Affiliation: Agnostic

Re: Evolution, Politics and Religion

Postby Bill » Thu Mar 05, 2015 6:42 am

So you are justified in having irrational bigotry for those who do not share your belief system. "Reasons" 1 and 3 do not hinge on a single question about evolution, and 2 is a total non-sequitir. But they convince you that you are being a fair and reasonable person.

Go for it.

But asking us to join in is a bit too much of a stretch. Your belief system is not necessarily the gold standard of belief systems, or we would all think the same way you do.

(p.s. There is one school of thought emerging from the creationists: evolution is good science, but the earth is too young for any new species to have emerged yet. You are gonna have to rephrase your question if you want to eliminate any of these slimy grease-balls from your consideration.)
The only reality is the moment that we call "Now".
= = = =
We evolved to seek dinner, not to seek the truth - Mark Whatever
User avatar
Bill
Site Admin
Site Admin
 
Posts: 5027
Images: 1
Joined: Fri Dec 03, 2010 1:23 pm
Location: South Orange, CA
Blog: View Blog (8)
Affiliation: Agnostic
Country: United States

Re: Evolution, Politics and Religion

Postby romansh » Thu Mar 05, 2015 7:18 pm

Bill wrote: So you are justified in having irrational bigotry for those who do not share your belief system. "Reasons" 1 and 3 do not hinge on a single question about evolution, and 2 is a total non-sequitir. But they convince you that you are being a fair and reasonable person.

Bill
You are not The One True Source® of what is irrational and what is bigotry. Just because you see it that way does not make it so.

Who said single question?

Bill wrote:But asking us to join in is a bit too much of a stretch. Your belief system is not necessarily the gold standard of belief systems, or we would all think the same way you do.

No one is forcing you to join me or anyone else. I simply think it is a valid question.

You have succumb to you own rhetoric about bigotry and irrationality ...I think.
"That's right!" shouted Vroomfondel, "we demand rigidly defined areas of doubt and uncertainty!"
Douglas Adams
User avatar
romansh
Site Admin
Site Admin
 
Posts: 4673
Images: 23
Joined: Fri Dec 03, 2010 6:46 pm
Location: BC/US border - in the woods
Affiliation: Agnostic

Re: Evolution, Politics and Religion

Postby Bill » Thu Mar 05, 2015 10:21 pm

When someone says that they are going to treat someone adversely for not coming to the correct conclusion, I ask for a rational reason for such treatment.

There has none been forthcoming, so far.

So the easiest course of action is to kill the messenger. Now why does that not surprise me? (Yeah, it is far, far easier than trying to find a rational cause, but it still comes as a shock when the cheap escape is selected.)

Let me try a bit of Chap like hounding: do give us one reason why a person who does not believe in evolution would make an unacceptable public servant.
The only reality is the moment that we call "Now".
= = = =
We evolved to seek dinner, not to seek the truth - Mark Whatever
User avatar
Bill
Site Admin
Site Admin
 
Posts: 5027
Images: 1
Joined: Fri Dec 03, 2010 1:23 pm
Location: South Orange, CA
Blog: View Blog (8)
Affiliation: Agnostic
Country: United States

Re: Evolution, Politics and Religion

Postby romansh » Thu Mar 05, 2015 11:52 pm

Bill wrote:When someone says that they are going to treat someone adversely for not coming to the correct conclusion,


Where have I said I will treat someone adversely?

I have not even said I would not vote for someone who does not believe in evolution.

All I have said I think it is a fair question ... and you go all righteous on some bigotry rant.

I think a sheesh is in order.
"That's right!" shouted Vroomfondel, "we demand rigidly defined areas of doubt and uncertainty!"
Douglas Adams
User avatar
romansh
Site Admin
Site Admin
 
Posts: 4673
Images: 23
Joined: Fri Dec 03, 2010 6:46 pm
Location: BC/US border - in the woods
Affiliation: Agnostic

Re: Evolution, Politics and Religion

Postby Bill » Fri Mar 06, 2015 6:42 am

In the OP you stated

(Personally I would not want a politician that on examining all the evidence, comes to a conclusion that evolution is false because it conflicts with a six thousand year old Earth).


You have never stated why such a politician is not worthy of your vote, and you have maintained that your position is not irrational despite the lack of any reason for such a lack of your vote.

Refusing to vote for a person is treating them adversely, I submit that adverse treatment without cause is a prima facia case of bigotry. It is the claim class of bigotry as those who say "I cannot vote for her despite all her proven experience,use she belongs to the wrong political party", but it is as equally bigoted.

So, instead of constantly criticizing me for pointing out that your position is irrational, how about trying to show why a person who has faith in the bible automatically results in a person who will make a lousy public administrator? Or have you come to the conclusion that the task is impossible to achieve?
The only reality is the moment that we call "Now".
= = = =
We evolved to seek dinner, not to seek the truth - Mark Whatever
User avatar
Bill
Site Admin
Site Admin
 
Posts: 5027
Images: 1
Joined: Fri Dec 03, 2010 1:23 pm
Location: South Orange, CA
Blog: View Blog (8)
Affiliation: Agnostic
Country: United States

Re: Evolution, Politics and Religion

Postby gilnv » Fri Mar 06, 2015 4:30 pm

Just thought I'd put two definitions into this thread, although these concepts aren't considered much here. These definitions don't pertain to this thread much, but the concepts of Genetic Memory and Lamarckism should be considered once in a while. They're probably disbelieved by many and considered likely by others. Wikipedia provided these definitions.

Genetic Memory (psychology), is an idea that a memory present at birth that exists in the absence of sensory experience.

Lamarckism (or Lamarckian inheritance) is the idea that an organism can pass on characteristics that it acquired during its lifetime to its offspring (also known as heritability of acquired characteristics or soft inheritance). For example, a blacksmith, through his work, strengthens the muscles in his arms. His sons will have similar muscular development when they mature.

P.S. I've known people that notice that these types of evolution and they tend to believe that this is a reason to believe there is some type of soul (or whatever ya want to call it) continueing on. Generally, the person that believes this type of evolution says that they notice a lot of beneficial innate skills in various types of wild animals from birth that are difficult to explain otherwise.
the divine isn't a living entity, it is the living force within all of us.
- Sadhguru
User avatar
gilnv
Senior Member
Senior Member
 
Posts: 890
Images: 2
Joined: Wed Dec 08, 2010 6:59 am
Affiliation: Agnostic

PreviousNext

Return to Political and Social Discussions

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

cron