Ayn Rand

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Ayn Rand

Postby romansh » Sun Apr 16, 2017 12:30 pm

Dissily Mordentroge wrote:Rand, having lived under the worst of Russian collectivism/dictatorship, escaped to the West reacting like so many of her compatriots in admiring a form of untrammelled individualism so extreme she consistently claimed selfishness is a virtue. The problem of dealing with a state enforced system claiming to be altruistic when simply no more than a vicious tyranny would be enough to sour anyone. However, there's no thorough refutation of her somewhat fragmented yet powerfully influential writings due to academic philosophers intellectual snobbery and their consequent refusal to engage with her. The outcome of this we now see in the rise of run away conservative neo-classical economics and in the influence of the US Tea Party etc.


I must admit I don't have a major problem with selfishness. Though I don't see it as a virtue, but more of a reality.

But should we come aware of our selfish traits, I can't help thinking there could be wisdom in reigning in the excesses; ie a measured selfishness.
Resources are finite ... our evolutionary psychology to have more etc, can be offset by memes or other rational thought and understanding of how we interact with our environment. It is in my selfish interests to be altruistic and perhaps be seen to be altruistic. My heritage is from the Baltic so I can't imagine the Soviet system as ever being altruistic. Even now Russia has not undone the effects of seventy odd years of communistic altruism. But I suppose we can blame the tsars before that.

As to the traits that you describe ie for a strong independence culture in US, I think there are many influences ... Malcom Gladwell ascribed at least some of it the tribal nature of the Scots that originally emigrated to North America.
"That's right!" shouted Vroomfondel, "we demand rigidly defined areas of doubt and uncertainty!"
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Re: Ayn Rand

Postby Dissily Mordentroge » Fri May 05, 2017 10:05 pm

romansh wrote: - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -As to the traits that you describe ie for a strong independence culture in US, I think there are many influences ... Malcom Gladwell ascribed at least some of it the tribal nature of the Scots that originally emigrated to North America.

Tribalism is I suggest a from of collectivism, not individualism, but maybe I'm misinterpreting you?

Speaking of tribalism I'm reminded of the very real threat to our entire tribe/species survival. I often think the discussions we have here and in other fora about deismVatheismVagnosticism, socialismVcapitalism and so many other debates are all no more than dancing around the deck of the Titanic while it goes down.
What makes me think that way? Here's a clue :- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_extinction
The Human Race is Insane.
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Re: Ayn Rand

Postby romansh » Sat May 13, 2017 6:06 pm

Dissily Mordentroge wrote:
romansh wrote: - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -As to the traits that you describe ie for a strong independence culture in US, I think there are many influences ... Malcom Gladwell ascribed at least some of it the tribal nature of the Scots that originally emigrated to North America.

Tribalism is I suggest a from of collectivism, not individualism, but maybe I'm misinterpreting you?

Speaking of tribalism I'm reminded of the very real threat to our entire tribe/species survival. I often think the discussions we have here and in other fora about deismVatheismVagnosticism, socialismVcapitalism and so many other debates are all no more than dancing around the deck of the Titanic while it goes down.
What makes me think that way? Here's a clue :- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_extinction

The first sentence of the wiki link
In futures studies, human extinction is the hypothetical end of the human species.

Not only is it hypothetical it was very probable. Just ignoring calamities (anthropogenic or otherwise ... we, if all goes well, will evolve and cease to be homo sapiens.

I think Gladwell was pointing to an individualism, and as a consequence there is an individualistic trait (cultural) running though the USA.
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