Mark of the Beast

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Mark of the Beast

Postby windywherever » Thu Nov 12, 2015 10:15 pm

Hi all. I've put this in the supernatural category cause it relates to prophecy from the Bible. I'd like to get an opinion from people who aren't particularly religious.

The prophecy says that a time is coming when a world leader will cause all people to take a "mark" on their right hand (or forehead, perhaps for amputees or other such exceptional circumstances) without which they cannot buy or sell.

Recent advances in cashless technology show a strong trend toward microchip technology which is injected under the skin (in the hand) and used as a tap-and-pay system. The obvious benefits are that you never forget/lose your money and it's very difficult for your money to be stolen.

Such a system very closely resembles what the prophecy (written nearly 2000 years ago) describes. To me it would seem to be too much of a coincidence but I'm curious how atheists/agnostics see this.
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Re: Mark of the Beast

Postby Bill » Fri Nov 13, 2015 6:43 am

My biggest problem with the Christian Bible is that it is very clear that modern man has absolutely no idea what the ancients meant at the time that the wrote it.

At one level we watch Christians performing rites on the wrong day of the week in remembrance of the crucifixion, and on a deeper one, modern man believing that the redefinition of the word "abomination" in the mid 1200's AD gives the word the same meaning that the ancients intended.

My understanding is that the mark is used to identify those who follow the AntiChrist and financial microchips seem to have a totally different purpose. It can be argued that some future cult will use such technology (but being hidden seems to defeat the prime purpose of showing everyone one's allegiance) but I cannot see any reason to think that use of the technology shows that the prophecy has come true,
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Re: Mark of the Beast

Postby romansh » Fri Nov 13, 2015 9:14 pm

windywherever wrote:Hi all. I've put this in the supernatural category cause it relates to prophecy from the Bible. I'd like to get an opinion from people who aren't particularly religious.

The prophecy says that a time is coming when a world leader will cause all people to take a "mark" on their right hand (or forehead, perhaps for amputees or other such exceptional circumstances) without which they cannot buy or sell.

Recent advances in cashless technology show a strong trend toward microchip technology which is injected under the skin (in the hand) and used as a tap-and-pay system. The obvious benefits are that you never forget/lose your money and it's very difficult for your money to be stolen.

Such a system very closely resembles what the prophecy (written nearly 2000 years ago) describes. To me it would seem to be too much of a coincidence but I'm curious how atheists/agnostics see this.

I suspect it has nothing to do with modern times ... do you?
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Re: Mark of the Beast

Postby windywherever » Fri Nov 13, 2015 10:20 pm

Hi Bill. Thanks for sharing your thoughts.

Bill wrote:At one level we watch Christians performing rites on the wrong day of the week in remembrance of the crucifixion, and on a deeper one, modern man believing that the redefinition of the word "abomination" in the mid 1200's AD gives the word the same meaning that the ancients intended.


I agree there are A LOT of problems/inconsistencies in the various behaviors of Christians, especially when it comes to rituals and outward observances about who are the good guys and who are the bad guys. However, I'm talking about a specific topic from prophecy, which, to me, appears to actually be coming true. I don't mind chatting about those other issues on a different thread, if you're interested.

Btw, what is your understanding on the meaning of the word "abomination" on how the ancients meant it vs the more modern day meaning? I've not heard of a distinction between two two, before.

Bill wrote:My understanding is that the mark is used to identify those who follow the AntiChrist and financial microchips seem to have a totally different purpose.


A separation of the Mark from it's financial aspect is pretty common amongst Christians,too. It's part of the frustration I shared in my introduction post. They just can't seem to accept what's actually written about the Mark and I believe it's because they don't want to see it.

Here's what the prophecy says about it. "And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads: And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name".

Obviously, a "mark" which is used to control buying/selling DOES fall, quite decidedly, into the realm of finance. What's more, the prophecy describes a global system (i.e.everyone using the same system) where this mark is mandatory (i.e. not just a novelty for some). 2000 years ago such a concept would have been pure fantasy. It's unlikely anyone at that time could have even imagined such a system on their own.

Now, with the advent of cashless systems and, especially the prevalence of tap-and-pay systems (which ultimate fulfillment is a microchip in the hand) it's becoming harder and harder for reasonable people to say there is no genuine correlation.
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Re: Mark of the Beast

Postby windywherever » Fri Nov 13, 2015 10:51 pm

romansh wrote:I suspect it has nothing to do with modern times ... do you?


I think it depends on what you believe it does have to do with. If not "modern times" then which time? What I'm trying to do here is to set aside all the religious atmosphere surrounding the Bible and prophecy in order to preform a rational examination of what the prophecy says vs what's actually happening in the world at the moment.

Ok, so back to the "modern times" thing. At any other time in history there has been no way for such a prophecy to be fulfilled. Unless, you have an explanation for how it could be done without the technology we have today. I suppose you'd probably say that you don't think of the prophecy as genuine anyway, so you don't feel it necessary to offer any explanation about how it "could" work, but then again, from my perspective, the explanation is already there in the form of cashless systems which can be utilized by any person anywhere in the world. In other words, it's not necessary to "come up with" an explanation for how it could work. All we need to do is recognize what's already happening in world economics and the miraculous correlation between it and what was described in prophecy nearly 2000 years ago.
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Re: Mark of the Beast

Postby romansh » Sat Nov 14, 2015 5:39 pm

I suspect tattoos have been around for long time.

Also people have been scarring their bodies for awhile.
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Re: Mark of the Beast

Postby gilnv » Sat Nov 14, 2015 8:28 pm

Prophecies and predictions are repeated throughout history in one form or another.

My first thoughts are that reference to a mark is like the reddish dot (bindi or tiki) that Hindu women often put on their heads. The reddish color was supposedly chosen because it referred to prosperity and to bring good fortune to the family. They and other religions were around before the Christian religions, therefore I suspect the prophecy started way back in B.C. and got continued in one form or another by the ensuing religions. Just as 'virgin birth', 'died and then rose', etc were themes used by many religions.

As an agnostic, I'm not likely to put interest into a prophecy of the bible than I would the Bhagavad Gita, Koran, Buddhist Texts, Nostradamus predictions, Shamans of South America, etc. Although, I do have sympathy for Shamans because so much of their culture is being destroyed. But the other religions seem to have a sustained following and future.

The reddish dots of Indians have probably evolved into more of a decoration and statement, much as wearing a cross on a necklace does for Christians.

Welcome to the forum and hope you enjoy the Fall and Winter, Gil.

P.S. In the aftermath of the Paris terrorist attacks, I just wish people wouldn't do violence in the name of their religions. Its one of the sickest things humans do.
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Re: Mark of the Beast

Postby windywherever » Sun Nov 15, 2015 12:34 am

romansh wrote:I suspect tattoos have been around for long time.

Also people have been scarring their bodies for awhile.


Yeah, but how are you relating that to buying/selling? That's the thing about the prophecy, what makes it unique. The purpose of the "mark" is to control buying/selling. Can you please comment on that aspect of the prophecy? Are you saying you don't see any correlation between "a 'mark' in the hand for buying/selling" and "a microchip in the hand for buying/selling"?
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Re: Mark of the Beast

Postby windywherever » Sun Nov 15, 2015 12:56 am

gilnv wrote:My first thoughts are that reference to a mark is like the reddish dot (bindi or tiki) that Hindu women often put on their heads. The reddish color was supposedly chosen because it referred to prosperity and to bring good fortune to the family. They and other religions were around before the Christian religions, therefore I suspect the prophecy started way back in B.C. and got continued in one form or another by the ensuing religion


This explanation doesn't address what the prophecy actually says. The location of the "mark" is only part of the description and really quite incidental to the purpose behind the "mark"; buying and selling. The Hindu Bindi thing doesn't address that part of the prophecy.

However, a global cashless system based on tap-and-pay technology using a microchip implanted in the hand perfectly addresses what the prophecy actually says about restrictions on buy/selling for those who do not have the "mark". The global financial system is slowly, but steadily changing. More and more businesses will switch over to cashless tap-and-pay systems as the advantages become more clear. A time is coming when paper/coin cash will become outdated.

The most obvious location for a microchip implant is the hand. Because the majority of the world is right-handed, and as an exercise in security the chip will almost certainly be limited to the right hand (i.e. you can't put it in your leg or neck just for shits and giggles). The forehead will probably act as a secondary location for amputees or those with other legitimate reasons for why the right hand won't work for them.

In the gospels, Jesus taught that his followers cannot work for God and money at the same time without cheating on one or the other. If we demand payment for our services then our motivation isn't love; it's money , but in the kingdom of Heaven we are meant to serve one another out of love, and not for payment. However, because people these days have become so brainwashed by greed they have come to believe they cannot live without service to money and so the description of "buying and selling" in the prophecy is almost unanimously ignored altogether.

The trick with the "mark" is that it will not appear to be a religious issue. There is no need, nor any indication in prophecy, for it to be overtly religious in nature. It will be accepted by so many Christians (despite the prophecy) precisely because it will have the appearance of just another development in global banking. It is quickly becoming a situation where people who do not see the connection do so because they choose not to.

gilnv wrote:As an agnostic, I'm not likely to put interest into a prophecy of the bible than I would the Bhagavad Gita, Koran, Buddhist Texts, Nostradamus predictions, Shamans of South America, etc


I'm not asking people to be interested in the prophecy so mush as I'm asking people to examine what the prophecy says and to compare that to what's actually happening in the world today.
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Re: Mark of the Beast

Postby romansh » Sun Nov 15, 2015 10:04 am

windywherever wrote:
romansh wrote:I suspect tattoos have been around for long time.

Also people have been scarring their bodies for awhile.


Yeah, but how are you relating that to buying/selling? That's the thing about the prophecy, what makes it unique. The purpose of the "mark" is to control buying/selling. Can you please comment on that aspect of the prophecy? Are you saying you don't see any correlation between "a 'mark' in the hand for buying/selling" and "a microchip in the hand for buying/selling"?


Apparently ancient Romans used to tattoo their slaves.
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