Mark of the Beast

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Re: Mark of the Beast

Postby Bill » Sun Nov 15, 2015 10:52 am

As a segue into a possible barren side path, the interpretation of what the prophesies of Nostradamus "really" meant have been written each decade to show that they invariably referred to the current time.

No true skeptic accepts Nostradamus's prophesies as anything other than a rather quaint parlor game. If by some extraordinary sequence of events they now appeared as a supplement to the New Testament, I suspect they would be treated by many more people as being worthy of showing what was going to happen to us all.

Modern man has clearly no idea what the ancients meant in all the other books in the Old Testament. It would be quite out of character for him to have got it right on this, and only on this, particular book.
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Re: Mark of the Beast

Postby windywherever » Sun Nov 15, 2015 11:29 am

It's interesting in that I get very similar responses from Christians; they simply don't want to talk about the buy/selling aspect of the mark and how it compares to what's actually happening in global banking right now. For them it's about a reluctance to deal with their dependence on materialism.

But for agnostics? I wonder what the bottom line really is...
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Re: Mark of the Beast

Postby romansh » Sun Nov 15, 2015 11:52 am

windywherever wrote:It's interesting in that I get very similar responses from Christians; they simply don't want to talk about the buy/selling aspect of the mark and how it compares to what's actually happening in global banking right now. For them it's about a reluctance to deal with their dependence on materialism.

So you don't think slaves were bought and sold by the Romans?
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Re: Mark of the Beast

Postby windywherever » Sun Nov 15, 2015 12:26 pm

romansh wrote:So you don't think slaves were bought and sold by the Romans?


I'm saying I'd rather talk about the mark of the Beast prophecy; what it actually says and how it applies to what's happening in the world today. If you've got some reasoning for how slavery in the days of Rome relates to the topic then I'm fine to discuss that, but other than mention of "tattoos" you've not given any solid reasoning for how your contribution relates to the topic.

The prophecy does not say one cannot be bought or sold without a tattoo (i.e. your reference to slaves being tattooed). It says one cannot buy or sell without a "mark", specifically on the hand or forehead. Do you have any evidence at all to show that the Romans utilized this kind of system? Were they tattooing one another's hands (or foreheads) as a sign of who could, or could not buy a sack of grain or slaves?

Obviously, the prophecy is describing something different to what you are describing regarding roman slaves.

It's really quite fascinating. When I talk to the Christians about this, they do something similar. The seventh day Adventist say The Mark is a day of the week. They have no explanation about the buying/selling part. They don't even address it.

Others are sure it will be an overtly religious symbol, a kind of ritual scarring which will be clearly presented as a symbol of satanic worship. Again, they have no explanation for buying and selling. I had a few people tell me that The Mark was the death of Jesus on the cross and another guy who believed the "buying and selling" part wasn't really about buying and selling at all but about giving and receiving grace. Some explain that the Mark represents our thoughts and actions (i.e. forehead and hand). I've even heard the same explanation gilnv put forth about the Hindu bindi and several others.

All of these explanations have one single thing in common; they all ignore the clearly defined purpose of the Mark; global control of buying/selling.

It's a purpose which, before now, seemed ridiculous. However, with the advent of cashless systems and, particularly tap-and-pay technologies it's becoming more and more ridiculous to NOT give it careful consideration. At least for the Christians, the evidence is becoming so obvious that it exposes deeper motives when they argue so fiercely that it's not happening. If they were to acknowledge the similarity between the prophecy and what's happening in world banking today, it would mean they'd need to reconsider their dependence on materialism in a new and shocking way. They'd need to make dramatic life-style changes in response, and that is simply too unappealing. Far better to explain away or ignore the issue using all the various convenient doctrines inspiration can devise when backed into a corner.

But for agnostics? I still wonder what the motivation is when agnostics, after several attempts at clearly laying out the issues, still don't seem to see it when they really should be able to...
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Re: Mark of the Beast

Postby windywherever » Sun Nov 15, 2015 12:27 pm

Bill wrote:As a segue into a possible barren side path, the interpretation of what the prophesies of Nostradamus "really" meant have been written each decade to show that they invariably referred to the current time.

No true skeptic accepts Nostradamus's prophesies as anything other than a rather quaint parlor game. If by some extraordinary sequence of events they now appeared as a supplement to the New Testament, I suspect they would be treated by many more people as being worthy of showing what was going to happen to us all.

Modern man has clearly no idea what the ancients meant in all the other books in the Old Testament. It would be quite out of character for him to have got it right on this, and only on this, particular book.


What about the topic? (see my response to Rom)
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Re: Mark of the Beast

Postby romansh » Sun Nov 15, 2015 12:30 pm

windywherever wrote:
romansh wrote:So you don't think slaves were bought and sold by the Romans?

If you've got some reasoning for how slavery in the days of Rome relates to the topic then I'm fine to discuss that, but other than mention of "tattoos" you've not given any solid reasoning for how your contribution relates to the topic.


A bit of advice ... if you are replying to a post near the top of the page, take a look at the previous page to see if you have missed anything.

Romans apparently tattooed their slaves and they certainly bought and sold them.
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Re: Mark of the Beast

Postby windywherever » Sun Nov 15, 2015 12:35 pm

romansh wrote:A bit of advice ... if you are replying to a post near the top of the page, take a look at the previous page to see if you have missed anything.

Romans apparently tattooed their slaves and they certainly bought and sold them.


It really does feel like my responses are being deliberately ignored.
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Re: Mark of the Beast

Postby romansh » Sun Nov 15, 2015 12:52 pm

windywherever wrote:
romansh wrote:A bit of advice ... if you are replying to a post near the top of the page, take a look at the previous page to see if you have missed anything.

Romans apparently tattooed their slaves and they certainly bought and sold them.


It really does feel like my responses are being deliberately ignored.

I don't believe there is any serious correlation between a supposed prophesy of some ancient scribe and today's technology.
For all I know it could be a lucky guess.
What are the reasons I should take this seriously?

If you want to talk about today's fiscal materialism: fine. But I am not going to discuss with you about how many angels can dance on the head of a pin. It is not you that is being ignored.
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Re: Mark of the Beast

Postby windywherever » Sun Nov 15, 2015 2:13 pm

romansh wrote:
windywherever wrote:
romansh wrote:A bit of advice ... if you are replying to a post near the top of the page, take a look at the previous page to see if you have missed anything.

Romans apparently tattooed their slaves and they certainly bought and sold them.


It really does feel like my responses are being deliberately ignored.

I don't believe there is any serious correlation between a supposed prophesy of some ancient scribe and today's technology.
For all I know it could be a lucky guess.
What are the reasons I should take this seriously?

If you want to talk about today's fiscal materialism: fine. But I am not going to discuss with you about how many angels can dance on the head of a pin. It is not you that is being ignored.


It's not a "supposed" prophecy. Anyone who predicts the future is giving a prophecy, even if it's something as simple as "I predict this forum will always stay dead until it's admins stop projecting their issues onto other people". Whether it's a scribe, an admin, or whether they are ancient or unreasonable is beside the point of a prediction being made.

It's frustrating that instead of responding to the evidence I've presented (i.e. cashless systems and microchip implants which matches exactly what the prophecy describes about buying/selling via a "mark" in the hand) you talk about lucky guesses and angels dancing on a pin head. Where, in all of history, can you find an example of any society implementing a system of commerce described in this prophecy? You can't because the technology for such a massive, global, all encompassing system has never been available, until now.

And all these various tap-and-pay systems which are currently using cards, phones, key-chain fobs, and stickers (yes, Barclays bank actually markets a tap-and-pay sticker which can be put on anything) is inexorably leading towards a global, mandatory microchip implant. The evidence is all around. I've set my mail account to search for any articles with the word "cashless" in them and I get dozens of article everyday about various countries around the world implementing new cashless systems. Small businesses, large businesses, schools, government agencies etc, they are all experimenting with cashless integration schemes involving tap-and-pay systems.

It is completely logical that these systems will eventually incorporate exchange rate applications so that people traveling from one country to another won't even need to change currency anymore. The computer will automatically process the rates and deduct the relevant amount from the person's account. It also makes logical sense that having a chip in the hand will be safer and more convenient than carrying a multitude of cards. People recoil from the idea now, but they are getting used to it. It's simply a matter of time before the convenience and benefit outweighs their personal tastes.

A global commerce system controlled via a microchip in the hand. If you have any evidence that this is NOT the future of money then you need to show it. Until then the fact that you don't "believe" there is any correlation between a "mark" on the hand for buying selling and a microchip on the hand for buying and selling simply means you're allowing a belief to blind you from what you can actually see. And you say the Christians are bogged down in wishful thinking!
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Re: Mark of the Beast

Postby Bill » Sun Nov 15, 2015 4:01 pm

I think that the purpose of the mark is to identify people who support the Anti-Christ.

For your claim to be accurate that microchip technology is the fulfillment of the usage of the mark, you then need to show that every person who uses microchip technology of this nature is a supporter of the Antichrist. That is, if you should elect to have a microchip implanted in your own person in order to engage in commerce, that act will turn you into a supporter of the Antichrist.

You have shown one side issue of the prophecy is now fulfilled. In my opinion, that is not the same as showing the whole prophecy is fulfilled.
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