Simulation Hypothesis

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Re: Simulation Hypothesis

Postby UnReAL » Tue Mar 11, 2014 9:25 am

AB517 wrote:lmao, cute. The common fundie athiest trick. at least at first. debartjeff uses it.

Put the line in the context first, please. In the context of my post.


What exactly was the context of your post supposed to be then?
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Re: Simulation Hypothesis

Postby AB517 » Tue Mar 11, 2014 10:13 am

if there is a simulation
if there is a programmer

then ...

stating there is no programmer, no programmers, and all of your stories are but a myth" ... is wrong.
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Re: Simulation Hypothesis

Postby UnReAL » Tue Mar 11, 2014 10:19 am

AB517 wrote:if there is a simulation
if there is a programmer

then ...

stating there is no programmer, no programmers, and all of your stories are but a myth" ... is wrong.


We're still dealing with hypothetical situations here. We're far from proving that reality is truly a simulation. Plus to assume that there MUST be a programmer is a non-sequitur. Who's to say that the simulation couldn't program itself? I think you're still reaching for way too many assumptions here as a means of justifying Theism or one of its variations
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Re: Simulation Hypothesis

Postby AB517 » Tue Mar 11, 2014 11:03 am

I didnt state otherwise.

maybe use another word. "simulation" implies the definitions I find in the dictionary.

I didnt assume anything other than "if your are right". I am totally ok with you being wrong.

Even discussing what the universe in this "simulation" term is reaching way, way to far. I have no idea why we would even entertain it other than to jerk our brains off.

But I played along ... "if you are right" or "if you are wrong".
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Re: Simulation Hypothesis

Postby UnReAL » Tue Mar 11, 2014 11:08 am

Allright so IF and only IF reality is a computer simulation... then you're assuming there must have been a programmer for such a version of reality? Not trying to sound rude with any of this, I just need a clarification of your perspective. BTW I'm referring to an almost completely indistinguishable computerized "simulation" of reality a la The Matrix. This is actually a very specific argument that was introduced by Nick Bostrom some years back.
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Re: Simulation Hypothesis

Postby AB517 » Tue Mar 11, 2014 11:38 am

You posted " ... almost completely indistinguishable computerized "simulation"..."
Maybe the word "computerized" is confusing me. Is it a reach to assume the word "computer" here?
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Re: Simulation Hypothesis

Postby UnReAL » Tue Mar 11, 2014 11:59 am

AB517 wrote:You posted " ... almost completely indistinguishable computerized "simulation"..."
Maybe the word "computerized" is confusing me. Is it a reach to assume the word "computer" here?


Well what assumptions are you referring to? That's the gist of the whole argument, that reality is being simulated by a highly advanced supercomputer in the future. I'm not really sure how else to take it.
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Re: Simulation Hypothesis

Postby AB517 » Tue Mar 11, 2014 12:25 pm

something had to build it? or did it pop out of quantum soup all ready programmed.
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Re: Simulation Hypothesis

Postby UnReAL » Tue Mar 11, 2014 12:42 pm

UnReAL wrote:Just remember, this hypothesis is based on the assumption of 3 possibilities:

1) The human race will go extinct before reaching a post-human stage.

2) The human race will reach a post-human stage, but won't be able to run a significant number of ancestor simulations.

3) We are most certainly living inside of an ancestor simulation right now.


If the human race was able to run a significant number of simulations, perhaps an infinite amount, then the 3rd possibility would be astronomically higher than the first two. All worth considering I suppose, and I might even go as far as labeling this a "theory" depending on further investigation of quantum phenomena. :mrgreen:


Bostrom's argument relies on the assumption that humanity will reach a posthuman phase and create a significant number of ancestor simulations. So we are basically assuming that people in the future would've built it yes. I don't think a simulation of such a magnitude could somehow "create" itself but I suppose we can't discredit the possibility either. Just seems more likely that a person or group of people would have invented it.
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Re: Simulation Hypothesis

Postby UnReAL » Tue Mar 11, 2014 1:10 pm

I already know where you're going with this line of reasoning. Just because there may have been a "programmer" doesn't mean the Theistic argument is verified. Even the Deists would have to prove the considerable measure of power that the programmer might possess. They still have to demonstrate all of the magical aspects of their faith, as well as anything "supernatural" like angels/demons, spirits/ghosts, prayer etc. Technology is not something we pull out of fairy tales. If anything it would be the Deus Ex Machina concept taken quite literally (god in the machine). But the term "god" would still be just a metaphor for the actuality.
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