The new, New Atheism

The new, New Atheism

Postby whateverist » Thu Feb 26, 2015 11:10 pm

I posted this over at atheistforums.org but didn't get much response. I suspect it would get a warmer response from agnostics. If the article is correct, apparently there is a new generation of atheists coming along who are much more non- than anti-. They are also much less motivated to disparage people's choice to embrace theism and even look to it for aspects that can be incorporated into a secular life.

This all seems appropriate to me. Getting worked up over the continued existence of religious belief does seem odd on the face of it. There is no rational reason to insist on making rationality the measure of every life decision. That path leads to an inability to maintain normal human relationships.

So has anyone else come across this. I first saw it on FB.

http://www.spectator.co.uk/features/888 ... s=og.likes
You can call me Mark or whatever.

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Re: The new, New Atheism

Postby Bill » Fri Feb 27, 2015 11:47 am

Nicely researched piece that seems to resonate with a more liberal minded approach to rejecting faith-based world views.

One quotable quote:

Rejecting religion is no sure path to virtue; it is more likely to lead to complacent self-regard, or ideological arrogance.


I can empathize with that thought... :)
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Re: The new, New Atheism

Postby romansh » Fri Feb 27, 2015 1:12 pm

I agree Mark
I don't think "bashing" religion will get us too far. But then some criticism of it when appropriate is also warranted.

Regarding when this new atheism started it was way before 9/11 ... Dawkins had potshots in hi Selfish Gene.

Also I think it was when the movement that led to the Wedge Document started to form was the seed for anti-theist attitudes.
Just an opinion at the moment.
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Re: The new, New Atheism

Postby whateverist » Fri Feb 27, 2015 6:07 pm

The wedge document is a good example of why activism against certain religious projects must be checked. It is also why I think our energy is better spent speaking up for better theism. By pushing for an end to theism we only push them toward ever more entrenched and desperate positions.
You can call me Mark or whatever.

“Tiger got to hunt, bird got to fly;
Man got to sit and wonder 'why, why, why?'
Tiger got to sleep, bird got to land;
Man got to tell himself he understand.”
― Kurt Vonnegut, Cat's Cradle
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Re: The new, New Atheism

Postby AB517 » Fri Feb 27, 2015 6:33 pm

whateverist wrote:The wedge document is a good example of why activism against certain religious projects must be checked. It is also why I think our energy is better spent speaking up for better theism. By pushing for an end to theism we only push them toward ever more entrenched and desperate positions.


really dude? when did you realize this? they banned me from that pig aa site for thinking like this. frig, someone even tried to be a nicer me (sock) and got railed on over there. I assumed the sock was you to tell the truth. :yes:
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Re: The new, New Atheism

Postby whateverist » Sat Feb 28, 2015 12:41 am

I lack the technological wherewithal to make a sock account even if I wanted to. They can indeed be a tough crowd but there are many individuals and there who are some who quite reasonable. (I use the same username both places.)
You can call me Mark or whatever.

“Tiger got to hunt, bird got to fly;
Man got to sit and wonder 'why, why, why?'
Tiger got to sleep, bird got to land;
Man got to tell himself he understand.”
― Kurt Vonnegut, Cat's Cradle
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Re: The new, New Atheism

Postby AB517 » Sat Feb 28, 2015 6:14 am

yeah I know whatever, you aint a bad guy, you're a follower I don't mean that in a bad way. You try and be nice but sometimes ya get caught up in the dance around that fire. I ama lurker in that cesspool. "tough"? has a different definition in my crew. Don't Curse a man that can't cut your throat. And if you live by the sword, don't be calling for help when the swords come out. "tactical retreat" is different than running, but when the knuckle-ing starts, there is no cowards. Why do you think there isnt many "drive by" shootings in "my type" of hood? poor white trailer tashing usa male?

I go that site to get a handle on the base arguments for when I discuss what science is, what it does, and who is doing the "saying" when literal militant atheists come to me. Not that reason has anything to do with their thought process, but alias, it's my job. ya see whatever, teaching is the holiest of events I know. I have to keep as much of "me out" and "them in" as possible. well, as you know, we do that best we can. :yes:
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Re: The new, New Atheism

Postby Inquisitor » Sat Feb 28, 2015 12:26 pm

Being an Atheist, I have gone through phases of growth. From being a Christopher Hitchins groupie, to leaning towards a respect for humanism. I also think that bashing religion is a waste of time. Religion will, I think, always be with us in one form or another. It is what religion drives people to do is what bothers me. If Christianity were much less evangelical, it could be tolerated better. If anyone should choose to "believe" in any religious ideology, whether revealed or otherwise, they should have that right. But only if they keep in mind that human well being is a universal venture and belonging to a specialized group with competing values only hinders that venture.
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Re: The new, New Atheism

Postby whateverist » Sat Feb 28, 2015 2:09 pm

My sentiments exactly.
You can call me Mark or whatever.

“Tiger got to hunt, bird got to fly;
Man got to sit and wonder 'why, why, why?'
Tiger got to sleep, bird got to land;
Man got to tell himself he understand.”
― Kurt Vonnegut, Cat's Cradle
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Re: The new, New Atheism

Postby romansh » Sat Feb 28, 2015 3:23 pm

whateverist wrote:The wedge document is a good example of why activism against certain religious projects must be checked. It is also why I think our energy is better spent speaking up for better theism. By pushing for an end to theism we only push them toward ever more entrenched and desperate positions.


The Wedge document was born out of the success of science in explaining our existence. The Wedge document or more accurately the activities supporting the document were designed to muddy the waters.

The few surveys that scientists answer still show a significant portion of them are believers in one way another. But what science does is erode the fundamental nature of that belief. It is not the intent of science to do this just a result. But when an organization tries to surreptitiously undermine the scientific waters ... it can expect a backlash. And this backlash has come from believers as well as non-believers.

So when some believers cry Woe are we. We are being mistreated by these New Atheists ... are they aware of the underlying causes?
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